Board Meeting 11/19/22
EPMFHOA Board Meeting
11/19/2022 @ 10:00 am
At the Gaddis’s
Attendees: John Gaddis, Susan Novy, Nan Belknap, Becky Valthoen, Yvonne Salfinger, Lowell Richardson (PMI)
Via Zoom: Pete and Linda Hogue, Ronnie LaRue
President’s Report: WOW! Homemade coffee cake and tea/coffee, compliments of Sally! We all introduced ourselves and relayed something about Thanksgiving. John mentioned that part of the joy of living in a small association is getting to know each other.
Secretary’s Report: approval of 8/1/22 minutes, Annual Meeting Minutes, Board Meeting following Annual Meeting minutes, and 9/17/22 minutes.
Need to find the 8/23 board meeting minutes and all will be reviewed at the January meeting.
Old Business: Committee Reports
Fun Committee: Claudia Jordan was nominated to keep the Thursday at 4:00 gathering going.
B&G Report:
Painting has been completed to everyone’s satisfaction. All siding, except one board, has been completed. Carl, the installer, is down with Covid now. The deck that was in progress (1454)is now complete.
Outsourcing Transfer Report:
So far only the financing team has talked to PMI. Things are going well as far as the financial transfer of information is going. The owners will be contacted soon, via email, to set up their portals that we can access for paying dues and seeing all public documents. Our own website, epmfhoa.com, will stay in place, as well. That way realtors and potential new owners still have a site to look at. Pamm and Yvonne have been out of town, so the other committees haven’t started the transfer yet.
Lowell commented on getting all the information transferred. The finances need to be in place first, so PMI can collect dues and pay bills. The next priority is the rest of the committees work. PMI has not received a timeline from us yet.
We also asked Lowell about all the boxes of old documents that are being stored and if he had suggestions of how to store these. He didn’t know the timelines off the top of his head as to how long which documents need to be saved. He will look into it. Yvonne volunteered to scan those that needed to be kept electronically. (it’s a favorite hobby of hers, she says)
Finance team Reports:
Treasurer’s Report 11/19/22:
FINANCIALS AND FINANCIAL SITUATION information repeated from last report is in italics
1) The 10/31/22 financials are completed and on the website.
2) Our team partnered with the B&G team to develop the 2023 Budget material that was approved by the board at the special board meeting 8/23/22 called for that purpose after a non-successful attempt to approve it at the 8/1/22 board meeting. This work was done subsequent to the 7/2/22 Town Hall meeting so the owner feedback on insurance and outsourcing costs could be incorporated. This year’s efforts were even more complex and time-consuming than in past years due to the issues involved. The owners confirmed the 2023 Budget at the 8/27/22 Annual meeting.
3) Your 2022 finance team is made up of four folks (Becky Velthoen, Linda Hogue, Ronnie LaRue, and
Pete Hogue). While not the desired situation our three key positions/roles (financial secretary,
treasurer, and finance chair) are currently held by two folks (Becky & Pete) which is due to
resignations and retirements during 2021 – with no one else stepping up to improve our resource
situation.
4) Our team has gotten involved in several activities in the near term:
a) determining how to invest some of our funds in safe investments (CD’s, MM accounts) given
the fact that the ROI for those types of instruments is improving second phase accomplished, more to come
b) determining what type of financial review should be done this summer we recommend none be done this summer
– the outsourcing project is by far the higher priority
c) determining whether to propose one or more additional administrative fees when effort is required
from the team due to an owner’s personal financial action (such as re-financing) on hold pending
what the Outsourcing Implementation Team determines is the right solution given the change in what
resources are impacted (PMI versus MF volunteers)
5) The key step in our outsourcing efforts was a formation of an Outsourcing implementation Team (approved at the September board meeting, includes several members from the finance team). In addition, it includes Anne Poznic who has agreed to assist the finance team in the finance arena outsourcing implementation work.
6) Our monies are split between the Operating Fund ($21,335.12) and the Reserve Fund ($130,729.08) for a total of $152,064.20. Also, the Fidelity Reserve Savings is split between a base balance ($42,923.76) and CD ‘s ($42,000.00) for a total of $84,639.23.
7) The finance team is recommending our Investment Management proposal (separate document) be approved at the board meeting.
MONTHLY ASSESSMENTS
We have several owners that are in arrears for their November 2022 assessments. While it is expected that this is a temporary situation which will resolve itself without further action, there is one situation that may need to be escalated to the board sometime soon.
SHOW US THE MONEY! As of October 31, 2022 – $152,064.20
| BOC Checking | $56,856.86 | |
| BOC Operations Savings | 3,760.18 | |
| Fidelity Operations Savings | 6,523.40 | |
| Fidelity Reserve Savings | 84,923.76 | |
Investment Policy Report:
Summary: We have $140,000.00 in income, $40,000.00 in painting paid out, which should leave $100,000.00 at year end.
Motion was made by Nan that we will adopt the investment policy, Becky 2nd. Passed
Reserve funding plan
Summary: a nice flow chart that PMI can pick up on.
2021 MF Multi-Year Financial Planning document:
This will be updated and reviewed in the January meeting.
–
Business Practices:
2021-2022 Time Line Document:
Nan moved to approve the timeline, Becky 2nd. Passed.
Susan requested a new time for the board meetings as she has a zoom meeting every 3rd Sat. From 10-1:00. Everyone present was fine with 2:00, same days.
Next meeting Jan 21, 2023 at 2:00
Adjourned: 11:20
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
Board Meeting 9/17/22
EPMFHOA Board Meeting
Sept. 17,2022
10:00 @ the Gaddis’s (1456)
Attendees: John Gaddis, Pete & Linda Hogue, Susan Novy, Pamm Haglund, Anne Poznic, Yvonne Salfinger, Becky Valtheon (first part of the meeting), Jim Meyers
Via zoom: Ronnie LaRue, Nan Belknap
President’s Report: John had everyone introduce themselves and give some info about themselves. It’s nice to live in a community where we know our neighbors.
Discussion on property management company and how to transition: John talked with Lowell at PMI and was impressed with him and that he lives in Estes Park. Lowell responded to our questions. The email with the responses was sent out to the board and John will also review them and give his response to us.
Pamm made a chart with the team responsible for the transition which is divided into 3 categories: administration, finance and facilities. Even though there’s more than one person in each category, PMI only wants to deal with one person per category.
Financial Reports:
Treasurer’s Report:
Transition to PMI financially: Typically, B&G determines what needs to be done and finds contractors and works with finance to make sure we can pay for it. Pete has concerns about whether we are able to complete our projects this year. Ronnie responded that the Brodie units painting will be done, but that row of units is our most expensive and makes it difficult to do many other projects. The siding will be completed that started last year. The building permit was obtained. We do need to address driveways.
We will continue as normal until the transition to PMI is completed January 1. Then PMI will help take over a lot of these issues.
Business Operations Report:
Pete made a draft organizational chart. We don’t know what will change once PMI comes on board, since we’re hiring a property management to take over some of these responsibilities. But this chart is typical of previous years.
Buildings & Grounds Report:
1. Driveways. A visual inspection will be done in the Fall of 2022. Any driveway deemed necessary of repair/coating will be done in 2022. All other driveways will be done in 2023. Currently, there is $2,500 a year budgeted for this work beginning in 2021. B&G anticipates using the total 3 year amount of $7,500 in 2023 if necessary (to the extent not used in 2022. 2. Painting. The painting of the Brody units is getting underway. Poznic deck railings will be re-painted in the Fall of 2022 (it was mistakenly painted the wrong color in 2021). Pamm Haglund’s deck was to be clear-coated instead of painted and needs to be returned to a clearcoat. Also, there’s overspray on her bathroom skylight that needs removing. No other non-scheduled porch/deck work is anticipated to be done in 2022.
Next Meetings: Nov. 19 at 10:00 at John’s (1456)
Jan 21 at 10:00 at John’s (1456)
Mar. 18 at 10:00 at John’s (1456)
May 20 at 10:00 at John’s (1456)
Adjourn: 11:10 am
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
Board Meeting 8/27/22
Approval Pending
Board Meeting directly following Annual Meeting
8/27/2022
12:30
Attendees: John Gaddis, Susan Novy, Nan Belknap, Pete Hogue, Ronnie LaRue, Pamm Haglund, Nipan Karmacharya, Rick Jordan
Election of Officers:
President: John Gaddis
Vice President: Yvonne Salfinger
Secretary: Susan Novy
Treasurer: Pete Hogue
Operations Director: Ronnie LaRue & Nan Belknap
Members at Large: Nipan Karmacharya, Becky Valthoen, Pamm Haglund
Moved by Pete to accept positions, 2nd by John. Passed.
Committees:
Finance: Pete, Ronnie LaRue
B&G: Nan Belknap
Community Activities: Gary Dougherty, Pamm Haglund
Next Meeting: Sept. 17 at 4:00
Adjourn: 12:45
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
Annual Meeting 8/27/22
Annual Board Meeting
8/27/2022
At the Hogue’s 11:00am
Attendees: Rick and Claudia Jordan, Pete and Linda Hogue, Susan Novy, Nan Belknap, Kathy Beatty, Elen Crone, Steve Poznic, John and Sally Gaddis, Kevin & Debbie Preston, Tim & Leigh Dawson
Zoom: Ronnie LaRue, Linda Buehring, David & Brittany Weibel, Nipan Karmacharya, Pamm Haglund
Proxies: Sherrie Rielly, Becky Valthoen, Molly Brown (3- Nan Belknap); David Boziden, Jim & Tina Myers, Diane Yoblin, Mary Stillman (4-Ronnie LaRue); Max & Yvonne Salfinger, Julie Walsh/Kjeldegaard, Randy Rahne (3-Rick Jordan)
Call to Order: 11:00
Sadly, we just got word that Arleta Bell (1440) passed away this morning. We had a time of silence for her and will miss her greatly.
Introductions: Those present introduced themselves.
President’s Report: Rick welcomed everyone and talked about the large increases this year. Both our values and insurance has gone up considerably.
He also wants everyone to know about our happy hour every week at the Hanger during the summer and Poppy’s during the winter. This is open to all and takes place every Thursday at 4:00.
We have decided to hire a property management company, PMI, as we are a bit behind the times with how we’re handling the HOA. We have a lot of documents that need to be updated and it would be nice to have a professional company get us up to date and be able to manage problems for us.
We are thankful for all the committees that have worked so hard to keep us managed. Buildings & Grounds have been very instrumental in finding products to upgrade with. The paint for the buildings should last longer and we’re updating the railings to metal railings.
We need to remember that we only have long term rentals. Should you have guests coming and are not going to be there with them, please let someone on the board know and make sure your guests know the rules; especially having to do with fires, noise and parking. It’s a lovely place to be and we want everyone to feel safe while enjoying themselves.
John Gaddis wanted to know about the streets and when they’re going to be repaved and potholes fixed. We didn’t have any information, so John will ask the town himself.
Finance Team Summary: Pete led the discussion. He went through a visualization on how the team comes up with the budget to pay the bills and save for projects. They try to balance two factors: impact on owners and keeping the HOA maintained. Planning for 2023 has been a challenging year to balance these two factors, due to the insurance doubling and values going up 25% and consumer inflation increasing substantially. In 2021, we finally got the budget funded well. Then costs skyrocketed and we had to take from the reserves to keep the dues the same during 2022. However, someday, we need to raise the dues to compensate. We decided to do this in increments starting in 2023. The board decided to increase the dues by $55.00/month in 2023, instead of the full $63.00 needed.
Questions:
Q. John asked if the professional property management company is budgeted for 2023.
A. Yes.
Q. Will the PM do an assessment of the grounds?
A. There is an option to get that accomplished with a professional team at an extra charge
Q. What will the board’s role be with a management company?
A. PMI will do the financial and management work and the board will delegate the responsibilities.
Q. What is the management’s company role?
A. We haven’t put together the details, but we are going to let PMI know we would like to hire them and ask them for their help implementing the program. We expect this will take 6 months to completely set everything up.
Q. Will we keep the 2% discount for those paying annually?
A. Yes.
2023 Budget Adoption: The budget is in the initial stages for 2023, we need to approve this initial budget with the caveat that the assessments will not change. Passed.
Slate for new board in 2023: Becky Valthoen, Nan Belknap, Pamm Haglund, Pete Hogue, Yvonne Salfinger, Nipan Karmacharya, John Gaddis, Ronnie LaRue, Susan Novy. Passed.
Adjourned: 12:20
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
Board Meeting 8/23/22
Board Meeting
8/23/22
5:00 pm @ the Jordan’s
Attendees: Rick & Claudia Jodan, Pete & Linda Hogue, Anne Poznic, Pam Hagland, Susan Novy, Nan Belknap, Becky Valthoen
Zoom: Ronnie LaRue, Nipan Karmacharya
Call to Order: 5:00
Budget Review:
Pete reviewed that we have 3 options to review to choose what gets presented at the Annual Meeting. One is to pay the full amount of insurance increase and property management company now, or to take from the reserves in order to defer the increase throughout a few years. The reasoning for this is that expenses are expected to go down by 2024 as most of the special projects will be finished. Choice one would increase the dues over 2022 by $63/month and keeps the reserves the same. The second choice would increase the dues over 2022 by $27 in 2023, $36 in 2024, then $63 in 2025; and reduces the reserves by $13,000. Choice three will increase the dues $47.00 over 2023 ; and reduces the money coming out of the reserves by $5675. Each year will need to be reviewed and assessed as needed.
So far there is no inflation rate included in any of these plans yet. The flat fees that were figured in 2021 for a 5 year period can’t work any longer due to the unexpected increase in insurance premium and now the outsourced property management, as well.
Ronnie moved to accept the 3rd option, Susan 2nd. After much discussion, the board decided on a $55 increase over 2022 for 2023. Passed 5/3.
Ronnie mentioned that he would like to see more money put into the operations reserve as that’s more liquid. The board agreed.
Slate for the new board: Rick Jordan, Pete Hogue, Pamm Haglund, Susan Novy, Nan Belknap, Ronnie LaRue, Arleta Bell, Nipan Karmacharya, Becky Valthoen, Yvonne Salfinger.
Adjourned: 6:30 pm
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
Board Meeting 8/1/22
EPMFHOA Board Meeting
8-1-22
4:00 at Jordan’s and zoom
Attendees: Rick & Claudia Jordan, Susan Novy, Aaron Voboril, Pet & Linda Hogue, Nan Belknap, Colleen LaRue, Jim Meyers, Becky Valthoen
Zoom: Ronnie Larue, Pamm Haglund, Nipan Karmacharya, Owner, Anne Poznic, Arleta Bell
Call to Order: 4:00 Aaron came to wish everyone goodbye and to acknowledge the reason he’s moving has to do with the dues going up so much, and he hopes we keep in touch with him at his new home.
Secretary’s Report: meeting minutes 6-26-22
Pete moved to accept the minutes; Pamm 2nd. Passed.
Treasurer’s Report:
Pamm moved to accept the Treasurer’s Report; Arleta 2nd. Passed.
Proposed budget: The proposed budget was put together by both the Finance Team and Buildings & Grounds. They only have a draft because they were not in agreement on a final plan. The disagreement has to do with whether we want to increase or decrease the reserves right now.
Updated High Level Timeline:
Planning & Practices: Guest policy proposal draft. Pete will work with the policy side of it, and Becky will work on the owner’s guide side of it. We’d like to request that those having guests stay at their unit without the owner being present themselves, will let the board know who’s coming and when.
Buildings & Grounds Report:
Aug 1, 2022 Board Meeting
We have finally started the Hardie board siding replacement project on 1451, 1455 problem areas. Unfortunately, the project was shut down by the town because Carl did not pull a building permit. He thought the area involved was small enough to not need one. As soon as we submit the permit and it is approved, we will complete this project
Linda B (1410) Sewer vent flashing needs to be replaced as it is leaking moisture. Carl is aware of this and his partner Scott is scheduled to replace it after the siding project is complete. He is going to complete the final shingle replacement on Nipan’s roof at the same time.
Kathy Beatty (1454) The deck is almost complete and looks very good. Tom C unfortunately had to stop the project due to necessary back surgery. He will be out indefinitely, so fortunately, his son is going to complete the last details.
I am meeting with Sherry Rielly re. a list of things she wants taken care of. We will have to go through and decide what are HOA items and which are at her expense.
The Brodie paint project is on for September by Randy. The Bid came in at $36,750 and we budgeted $40,000 so we are under budget by $5700 on this item. No siding needs to be replaced with this project.
Happy to relate that the dog poop/salt container issue has been temporarily solved. They are cleaned out and in place. If anyone sees someone disposing of their doggie bags there, please call them out on it. Special thanks to Steve Poznik for coming to our aid with monster chain cutter.
Pete moved to accept the B&G report, Pamm 2nd. Passed.
Insurance Team: We discussed whether we want to increase the deductible. The team found the amount saved was not enough to worry about.
Pete moved to accept the team’s decision, Nipan 2nd. Passed.
Susan also played a phone message from Danielle, our insurance agent, that stated there is nothing in our Declarations insurance guidelines that stops us from charging the policy premium by unit size. It’s very common to divide the premium by the development’s insurable square footage and charge the units accordingly by their insurable size. It’s also common to split the premium equally amongst the owners. Since we can do what we want, it was assumed that we would start charging the premium equally.
Professional Management Research Team: The team would like to recommend PMI as a professional management company for a base cost of $6900.00 per year. The owner is very knowledgeable about Estes Park and town regulations. We got a very positive recommendation for the company.
Pamm moved to bring on PMI as our management company; Pete 2nd. Passed.
New Board Slate:
Aleta Bell, Nan Belknap, Nipan Karmacharya, Pamm Haglund, Pete Hogue, Ronnie LaRue, Susan Novy, Yvonne Salinger
Next Meeting is directly following the Annual Meeting 8-27-22
Adjournment: 5:36
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
Town Hall Meeting 7/2/22
Estes Park Mountain Fairways
Town Hall Meeting
July 2,2020 10:30AM
Estes Park Baptist Church (2200 Mall Road)
Attendees: Kevin & Debbie Preston, Rick & Claudia Jordan, Susan Novy, Pete and Linda Hogue, John & Sallie Gaddis, Ronnie & Colleen LaRue, Gary Dougherty, Nan Belknap, Jim & Tina Myers, Steve & Anne Poznic, Kathy Beatty, Elen Crone, Becky Velthoen, Tim & Leigh Dawson, Linda Buehring, Max & Yvonne Salfinger, Ed Emmer, Danielle Arnold
MF Property Insurance & Associated Costs
Pete Hogue Reported: These discussions are based on the material sent out in advance to all owners. See attached.
Assessment Review:
All assessments for common and limited common elements and common expenses are split equally between the Owners. Being the insurance premium doesn’t fall under either category, the board will confirm whether that principle applies to payment for insurance premium expenses, as well. (Secretary’s note: The Declarations are now on the website in the main header in a far more legible manner than what the County Clerk has.)
Insurance claim (deductible) assessments are dealt with in the same way as any other maintenance/repair project: it’s the responsibility of HOA to complete the project and the owners will pay equally, less the amount the insurance pays.
Danielle Arnold (our American Family Insurance agent) Reported:
The State of Colorado is reviewing insurance laws as many of the homes in the Marshall Fire were underinsured. This is affecting the whole insurance industry. Consequently, our insurance has increased the replacement cost to $250/square foot from $148/ S.F. to determine our total insured value (the amount we need to insure). By being fully insured, as we are, we have a guaranteed replacement cost (regardless of the actual square footage cost) that would kick in should the entire the development burn down. The 17 million in insurance coverage we have now will easily cover full replacement cost on any smaller fires in the development. The replacement cost is figured on original as-built specifications (as found at the Estes Park Zoning Dept). Any owner improvements are only covered through the owner’s individually purchased condo policy. The two companies will then work out who pays for what. According to the Declarations, should more than 70% of the development be demolished by fire or wind, the HOA has the option to not rebuild the development. Our current deductible is $1000.00 on wind and fire insurance. We’re considering to a $5000 deductible for premium savings.
Hail and Wind is another area of increased insurance. Insurance companies have had to replace so many roofs due to wind and hail that this has caused many insurance companies not to insure HOA’s. Those that do, are changing the way they handle deductibles. There are too many wind & hail claims to keep the premiums low. So now many (including American Family) have split the deductibles into two types of deductibles: fire and wind/hail. Our fire deductible will remain at $1000.00 (unless we increase it to $5000). But we will now also have a wind/hail deductible of 5% the insured value of each building for each separate building.
Example: our smallest duplex with (2) units = 3972 s.f x $250/s.f. replacement value= $993,000 insured building value X 5%= $49,650 deductible for wind and hail on just that one building. Should a wind/hail storm come through and do a total of $60,000 damage on that same building with a $49,650 deductible, a deductible assessment would go out for ($49,500 divided by 30 owners) $1655 per owner that everyone’s personal loss assessment coverage could cover, if you had it. Otherwise, you’d be responsible for your assessment by your own means. Consequently, it is highly recommended that owners get “loss assessment” coverage on their personal condo insurance policy, in addition to your Dwelling coverage and Personal Property coverage. 50K of loss assessment coverage should cover it. (Most policies already cover it, but only a $1,000 deductible. Make sure you have enough.) Loss assessment coverage is cheap and we highly recommend you get it by 2023, as that is when this goes into effect.
The normal situation is that the HOA manages the project to fix the damage. Should the damage be over the deductible amount and a claim made, once the deductible is met, the HOA receives an insurance check that covers the cost minus the deductible. The HOA will meet the deductible by either project reserve and/or by assessing all owners equally for the needed deductible amount – thus having the HOA revenue and expense for the claim being equal.
The only upside to this change of coverage is that the insurance companies won’t be having to replace so many roofs due to hail damage and the premium could possibly come down in time. Don’t hold your breath. The insurance industry is changing daily.
Pete Further Reported:
The insurance premium went from approx. 17K in 2021 to 34K in 2022. During 2022, the board was able to cover the increase of insurance due to monies on hand. Now we’re short in the Operating reserve funds. We’re expecting an increase in dues. Amount is yet to be determined. Stay tuned for the next board meeting.
With HOA small (non- hail/wind) claims, when the damage goes from the exterior to the interior, or vice versa, the HOA needs to determine between owner’s upgrades and HOA’s property to determine what portion the HOA needs to pay for the damage. That portion is split equally amongst the HOA owners (whether by insurance monies, reserves or assessment) and the rest is the owner’s responsibility. This is the reason for you having both Dwelling coverage and Personal Property coverage, as well. ex: a skylight leaks onto a hardwood floor that was originally carpet. The skylight and roofing repair is the HOA’s and the upgraded wood floor is the Owner’s.
Outsourcing A Property Management Company:
Pete Reported:
The team initially expects the price would be somewhere between $600-$1000/month, ($20-34/owner) to hire a property management company. The team has only looked at one company and needs at least two others to look at. We’re not sure what year would be best to start this or if this will be best for the association. We have dwindling volunteers to be on the board and committees. This is the main reason for this consideration. Of course, even with a property management company we still the need the board of directors.
Another option that was looked at by the team early in the process is that we could lease a professional property management software and remain self-managed. The one looked at was Condo Control.
Meeting Adjourned: 12:15
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
Minutes 6/26/22
EPMFHOA Board Meeting
June 26, 2022
1:30 pm at Jordan’s and Zoom
Attendees: Rick & Claudia Jordan, Susan Novy, Nan Belknap, Nipan Karmacharya, Pete and Linda Hogue, Arleta Bell, Anne Poznic, Becky Velthoen, Jim Myers
Zoom: Pamm Haglund, Max and Yvonne Salfinger, Ronnie LaRue, unknown Owner
Call to Order: 1:32
Secretary Report: Minutes for March and May. Add Anne Posznic to the list of attendees for the March meeting and correct the spelling of Lori Calnon’s name.
Pete moved to approve the March minutes, Arleta 2nd.Passed.
Pete moved to accept the May minutes with the note that Susan’s proposal was tabled until a further meeting. Arleta 2nd. Passed.
Treasurer’s Report: Financials are on the website.
Treasurer’s Report 06/26/22:
FINANCIALS AND FINANCIAL SITUATION
1) The 5/31/22 financials are completed and on the website.
2) Your 2022 finance team is made up of four folks (Becky Velthoen, Linda Hogue, Ronnie LaRue, and
Pete Hogue). While not the desired situation our three key positions/roles (financial secretary,
treasurer, and finance chair) are currently held by two folks (Becky & Pete) which is due to
resignations and retirements during 2021 – with no one else stepping up to improve our resource
situation.
3) Our team met recently and has subsequently gotten involved in two activities in the near term:
a) determining how to invest some of our funds in safe investments (CD’s, MM accounts) given
the fact that the ROI for those types of instruments is improving first step accomplished
b) determining what type of financial review should be done this summer. work in progress but not yet
complete
4) One team member (Pete) is representing the finance team on the MF Outsourcing Team looking at the potential for outsourcing a sub-set of the current volunteer-based responsibilities in several arenas (operational property management, operational financial management, and general/administrative). In addition, another member of the MF Outsourcing Team who is a past finance team member (Anne) is partnering with Pete to ensure effective coverage in the operational financial management arena.
MONTHLY ASSESSMENTS
We have one owner that is in arrears for their June 2022 assessments. We have one other owner that needs to complete payment of a late fee.
SHOW US THE MONEY!
| As of May 31, 2022 | ||
| BOC Checking | $93,782.41 | |
| BOC Operations Savings | 3,757.94 | |
| Fidelity Operations Savings | 6,476.41 | |
| Fidelity Reserve Savings | 84,504.89 | |
| TOTAL | $188,521.65 |
Finance Team has looked into investing the savings into something with more ROI. They looked into a safe CD to put the roofing reserve into a better investment for a 2-year period of time. They want authority to do this without board approval, but let the board know when it has happened and the details.
Rick moved to approve granting the Financial Team the authority to move money into a conservative, safe investment and let the board know where the money is. Nipan 2nd. Passed.
Nipan moved to accept the treasurer’s report, Nan 2nd. Passed.
Planning & Practices Report:
The Town Hall Meeting is next Saturday, July 2, 2022 at the Baptist Church on Mall Rd at 10:30. The next board meeting to determine the budget will be Monday August 1 at 4:00, then the annual meeting will be Saturday August 27 at 11:00 am.
B&G Report:
- The landscaping has begun in earnest with all systems up and running, including the sprinkler system, mowing schedule and trimming begun. Carl has hired a gentleman to do the trimming and he began on Friday, the 24th. The reports I have heard has him doing an excellent job. If anyone has anything special re trimming besides the potentilla bushes, please let me know and I will pass it on to Carl.
- The gutters have been cleaned and I am scheduling it again in the fall if necessary (some years we seem to need it a second time and others not).
- The property will be fertilized and sprayed for weeds this upcoming Monday or Tuesday by TruGreen. Hopefully our afternoon showers will continue.
- Carl has approached me about possible uses for the strip of land on the west end of our property. He said sod would obviously be the most immediately attractive and has the best chance for success but the cost is clearly a factor compared with turning the oil over and planting grass seed. Our ability to water that strip often and thoroughly is a drawback to the success of seeding. Any and all suggestions concerning the use of this strip of property are much appreciated as we do not intend to proceed with any plan without some sort of consensus among home owners.
- Re the perimeter fence: Ronnie and Aaron have inspected them and replaced two posts along Brodie. All remaining posts and railings have been inspected and the fence is weathered but appears to be in sound condition.
- 1421, 1435 decks have been painted with 2 coats of ‘deck paint’. 1434 front porch painted with ‘deck paint’.
- 1421, 1431, 1437 elevated decks need 2 x 10 floor joists placed between existing floor joists to reduce spacing from 24” to 12”. We are searching for a vendor to handle this project.
- We need to complete the siding project with the new siding on Laurie Emmer’s condo and the bottom portion of Lori Calnon’s and Becky Valthoen’s. Carl has agreed to complete the project.
- The replacement deck project is underway at 1454. Tom Couisneau is doing the work and should be done by early to mid-next week depending on the weather.
- The Committee is working on what if any duties we would like to see the proposed Property Management Co would assume for B&G. We would appreciate as much input from home owners as possible in this regard. Given the committee has such a volume of predictable as well as unpredicted issues arise, projecting the dollar cost of this service is a challenge. Basically, the issue comes down to…how much are we willing to pay for the convenience of outsourcing the responsibilities and duties of B&G.
- The snow removal contract. I am in the early phase of talking with Carl regarding adding that service to his present landscaping contract. The advantage is he charges by time…meaning only driveways that are occupied will be shoveled and when we need drift plowing, it will be done to those in need not simply all occupied units. We are hoping the savings will be substantial (and the snow and wind spirits will cooperate).
- The Committee would like to thank Pamm for heading up the Proposed Property Management Committee this Spring and Summer will all the work involved. She has done an excellent job for all the HOA and B&G as well.
Pete moved to accept the B&G Report, Nipan 2nd. Passed.
Insurance Committee Report:
Rick provided the email Q&A response from Danielle at American Family Insurance
Our questions –
Insurance premiums:
– the estimated cost per square foot to reconstruct our condos was increased this year to $250 (from $149 I think).
Correct – 2021/2022 was $148.25sf. 2022/2023 is $250sf
– Do you expect the estimated cost to reconstruct to be increased again next year, especially since we’re reading that the Marshall fire rebuild estimates are coming in much higher than that?
We are seeing a steady inflationary increase to buildings based off of the inflation protection built within the policy. I don’t expect us to implement a manual increase within the next year. The thought of having $250 a sf on the outside and having unit owners carry $100 a sf on their interior policies covers the entire building at $350 a sf which is right in the middle of the Marshall fire rebuild estimates.
- We budget in summer for the following calendar year. Can you help us estimate any increases for calendar year 2023?
We have had a 20% base rate increase due to the fire exposure of the area. You can also expect the implementation of a 10% wind/hail deductible. This will offset some of the base rate change but if you budget 20% you should be safe.
– what options should we consider, that could decrease our premiums?
– higher deductibles?
You are currently carrying a $1000 deductible. Increasing this to $5000 will definitely give some premium relief.
– is our full replacement coverage reasonable?
It’s as reasonable as we can get without blowing the barn doors off. I have never been a proponent of knee jerk replacement reactions due to elevated retail pricing. We also have guaranteed replacement cost coverage on the policy meaning that if we are found to be underinsured during a claim event AMFAM guarantees we will rebuild it regardless of the cost. You must be insured at $250sf in order to carry this endorsement. Which you are.
- how is that different from “extended replacement cost”?
The term replacement cost is just a description of what our calculations say we can replace your buildings for. Extended replacement cost is the presence of some sort of extension offered in the event of a total loss (to cover unseen inflationary costs). For instance, if you have 20% extended replacement cost coverage that means that the company will offer an additional 20% of coverage beyond your listed value in the event of a total loss. Guaranteed replacement cost means that the company will pay whatever price it takes to replace the building regardless of the limit listed on the policy.
- What other options could be considered?
The Condo Enhancement Endorsement (which you have on the policy currently) offers a variety of needed coverages including ordinance & law (code upgrades), guaranteed replacement, and back up of sewer. These are some of the most needed coverages at this time and they are present on your current policy.
Property questions:
– we’ve been told that our landscaping, especially the well-watered grass is pretty fire resistant. Although now fires are a threat year-round it seems. At the Board meeting we discussed the efforts the Colorado Legislature is considering to incentivize less water landscaping than bluegrass.
- Does AmFam have any position or thoughts on how a change like this may affect fire susceptibility (and insurers rates)?
This has not been discussed at this time but in the end fire mitigation should be looked at as a way to keep your insurance rather than a discount option. Other than building sprinklers there is no avenue currently for reduced insurance rates based off of landscaping and other mitigation efforts.
- Are there options for less grass that you prefer or recommend?
The amount of grass does not affect your premiums or your ability to get insurance overall. Hence, I have no recommendation on this action.
Coverage questions:
– Question about shared coverage between each owner’s insurance and HOA’s insurance.
- If a unit has a kitchen fire which damages the interior and drywall, is the HOA’s coverage invoked for any portion of the damage or is it all on the owner’s personal policy?
All coverage offered by our policy is set up via your insurance section of the HOA declaration. Unless you have updated these recently, your insurance section is ALL ENCOMPASSING. Meaning we will cover the entire exterior and interior of the building when presented with an insurance loss. Here is a snapshot of the insurance section of the HOA declaration I have on file with the coverage language highlighted.
– Do we have any coverage for possessions inside the condo?
All possessions are the responsibility of the unit owner and their personal policy
– Which, if any, of the appliances are covered under our policy?
Appliances that are permanently attached and generally sold with the condo will be covered under the HOA policy (stove, dishwasher, built in microwave, fridge). Any freestanding appliance (freezers, microwaves, secondary refrigerator) are the unit owners’ responsibility
– Do we have any coverage for additional living expenses, and if so, how much?
Additional living expense is a coverage found in personal unit owners’ policies. The HOA is not responsible for additional living expenses.
– What are our personal liability protection limits?
HOA liability limits are $2,000,000 per occurrence / $4,000,000 aggregate. Again, all personal exposures and personal liability (including personal unit sidewalks, interior unit exposure) falls underneath the personal unit owner’s policy.
– Does American Family re-estimate costs to rebuild each year?
All policies go thru an inflation review every year automatically – but full replacement is generally calculated once every three years or so. We just went thru this mandatory recalculation 2021/2022.
– What recommendations do you have for our HOA based upon your knowledge of our properties and our existing coverages?
The only suggestion I would make is to look at restating your HOA declaration insurance section. All-encompassing language such as this opens the door to many small claims and nickel and diming your insurance coverage. It is in the HOA’s best interest to make the unit owner responsible for their unit interior damage in the event of loss.
Finance Director requested items:
– Am I correct that it is up to our association board to determine how to “cover” the insurance premium costs through/as one part of our Operating Fund assessments revenue line item [within the insurance related parameters & constraints found in our Declarations]?
Unfortunately, I am not an HOA legal advisor. I do not know the duties of your board as designed in your declarations. As far as insurance policy premiums, it is the responsibility of the insured to make appropriate payment. The named insured is the HOA and the board is the representative of the HOA and acts on its behalf.
– Am I correct that once our insurance premium is finalized/set for the year (which we pay in monthly installments) any MF HOA submitted claim will be paid to the HOA (minus our deductible) based on the estimated repair cost done by your insurance appraiser (whether in house or contracted).
Correct – All insurance claims payments will be made in the name of the insured, Estes Park Mountain Fairways. It is then the responsibility of the HOA to disperse funds to the appropriate contractors.
- Further, that our received monies in case of a major/catastrophic event/loss (estimated repair cost minus our deductible) will take place even if the damage amount exceeds the full replacement value figures that are the basis for the premium (in other words, your company as both our insurance agent and underwriter) bears the risk should we be underinsured in actuality for the major/catastrophic event should our combined work to ensure that doesn’t happen be inaccurate planning?
You have selected to carry the guaranteed replacement cost endorsement. If the repair/rebuild cost exceeds the listed values this endorsement will activate a retroactive change to the current years policy, increasing the listed values to the appropriate time of loss estimates hence giving you exactly 100% replacement value. The pro-rated premium for the difference in coverage will be billed out to the insured and become an insurance liability. Meaning that if we were found to be $1,000,000 underinsured, the policy would retroactively increase the overall coverage by $1,000,000 to this year’s policy term and bill out the premium resulting from adding this $1,000,000 in coverage. It is a safety net feature that is imperative during a time such as this as it is impossible to know the exact replacement values on any given day. We place the policies to the closest replacement values available at the time so in the event of a loss we do not have a large discrepancy but this endorsement gives you the security knowing that if the policy is dramatically off you will have access to the funds to rebuild.
1
Property Management Committee Report:
MFHOA OUTSOURCING TEAM – 6/26/22 REPORT TO BOARD
We envision that this same information (in this form or a different form) would be what is used at the Town Hall meeting
The information under the headings below provides an overview of our team, our assignment/expectation from the board, and the current status of our work.
Team Membership & Purpose
1) The team, with Pamm Haglund as team leader, is composed of:
a) members of the board with key committee/team roles in addition: Pamm Haglund, Ronnie LaRue, Nan Belknap (all B&G) as well as Pete Hogue (finance) and Susan Novy (PP&T – insurance)
b) owners: Yvonne Salinger, Anne Poznic, Lori Calnon.
2) Our team objective is to determine a reasonable set of current volunteer-handled responsibilities & activities for potential outsourcing and locate/research local property management companies that could & would contract with us to handle them. The ultimate result is creating a recommendation for consideration by the Board.
Our Recent Activities
1) Our original approach was to interact with a single property management company, one used satisfactorily by our neighbors to our West, in order to accomplish the objective.
2) We provided a scope of work grouped in three arenas, with both operational and administrative components in each: property asset (facilities) management related, financial management related, and general. That scope is being further refined in both our key first two arenas shown above. We obtained basic information about the organization which is Association Management – Estes Valley [AMEV].
3) We did a walk-through of our Mountain Fairways grounds with a representative from AMEV named Lisa Rosenhagen on Monday, 6/6/22. We have received a “bid” from AMEV and are clarifying our understanding of that material.
4) We will be meeting/have met on Friday, 6/24/22, to determine our next steps. We will provide team representation & information (potentially this document) at the Saturday, 7/2/22, MF Town Hall Meeting.
Our revised Approach & Key Questions Being Addressed
1) Based on the importance of this work, we have revised our approach to interact with several other property management companies in order to ensure the best solution for our association.
2) The three key questions we will answer prior to making our recommendation to the board are:
a) are we comfortable with the premise that selected outsourcing is a strategic action do be done in the best long-term interest of the association?
b) is the timing (as premised below) right for this action?
c) is the to-be-selected property management company the right solution for our association – both in the short term and longer term?
3) Our two key premises related to timing and cost include:
a) the agreement (contract) would be for the year 2023
b) the 2023 Budget Worksheet (initial version done in July/August of this year) would include provision for the expense related to the selected property management company; this budgeted monies would include both the one-time costs and the monthly costs. Our current very preliminary estimate of cost is the range of $600 to $1,000 per month.
4) At the current time there are many topics being addressed by the team. On some of these topics there is a reasonable degree of agreement among the team members. On other topics there are significant differences of opinion among the team members. There is one thing that has consensus agreement by all team members, which is there is a lot of work yet to be done by this team before we will share final information with, and bring a recommendation to, the board.
Town Hall Prep: Pete and Rick are going to run the show with all the information collected above. Danielle from American Family Insurance will be there to present and answer questions.
Agenda:
AGENDA – MF TOWN HALL MEETING
[Saturday, 7/2/22, 10:30 AM, EP Baptist Church (2200 Mall Road)
I. Welcome & Overall Plan for The Town Hall Meeting
II. FIRST KEY TOPIC – MF PROPERTY INSURANCE & ASSOCIATED COSTS
1) Introduction of speakers & approach for this agenda item Pete Hogue
– what insurance is in scope for today and what is not?
– meeting objective: getting MF owners current on insurance matters that impact them
– Pete Hogue (Board member & insurance team member & finance team chair) and Rick Jordan (Board member &
insurance team lead) will facilitate this topic on the Board’s behalf
– Danielle Arnold will represent American Family Insurance – our insurance agency
2) What has changed in the insurance industry recently and how has that impacted HOA insurance coverage and premiums
in general? Danielle Arnold
3) What impact has there been on the MF owners as a result – in particular the impact in 2022 and the coming impact in
2023? Rick Jordan & Pete Hogue [MIA]
– major increase in MF property insurance premiums
– major change coming in how deductibles are handled
– how the impact of increased premiums has been mitigated in the short term for MF owners
4) What knowledge/understanding does each MF owner need to take away from this meeting? Pete Hogue
6) General question & answer time presenters, MF insurance function team
III. SECOND KEY TOPIC – MF OUTSOURCING STRATEGY & TEAM (including current status & associated future costs)
1) Introduction of speakers & approach for this agenda item Pete Hogue
– who makes up the Outsourcing Research Team [ORT] and what is in their scope and what is not?
– meeting objective: getting MF owners current on the outsourcing of selected volunteer-based responsibilities &
activities that impact them
– Pamm Haglund (Board member & ORT team leader) and Pete Hogue (Board member & ORT team member & finance
team chair) will facilitate this topic on the Board’s behalf
2) Information on strategic direction, status report from the ORT, and potential cost impact for 2023. Pamm Haglund &
Pete Hogue [MIA]
3) General question & answer time presenters, ORT team
IV. Adjournment
*****************************************************************
MIA = material in advance of the meeting for review prior to the meeting
HAND = handout at the meeting
Questions for each of the two specific agenda topics will be answered either during individual items related to the topic or at the end of that specific agenda topic [at the discretion and direction of the speaker(s) covering each topic]
Next Meetings:
Town Hall: July 2, 2020 at 10:30 at Baptist Church off Mall Rd.
Board Meeting: August 1,2020 at 4:00 at Rick’s
Annual Meeting: August 27, 2020 at 11:00 at the Baptist Church off Mall Rd (to be confirmed)
Adjourn: 3:06
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
Minutes 5/25/22
EPMFHOA Board Meeting
AgendaTime: May 25, 2022 01:00 PM Mountain Time (US and Canada)
Attendees: Rick Jordan, Susan Novy, Nan Belkamp, Pete & Linda Hogue, Gary Dougherty,
via Zoom: Ronnie LaRue, Max & Yvonne Salfinger, Becky Valthoen, Pamm Hagland, Nipan Karmachurya
- Call to order.1:03
- Secretary
- January Board Meeting Minutes –They were approved at the March meeting
- March Board Meeting Minutes – deferred to next meeting
- Finance
Status and Report – Pete.
Treasurer’s Report 05/25/22:
FINANCIALS AND FINANCIAL SITUATION
1) The 4/30/22 financials are completed and on the website.
2) Our finance team prepared the MF 2022 Revised Budget material for review and approval at the
3/13/22 board meeting. The material was approved with modifications that resulted from the
discussion of how to manage our 2022 challenge related to insurance expenses. The changes have
been made and the revised documents distributed to the board members.
3) Your 2022 finance team is made up of four folks (Becky Velthoen, Linda Hogue, Ronnie LaRue, and
Pete Hogue). While not the desired situation our three key positions/roles (financial secretary,
treasurer, and finance chair) are currently held by two folks (Becky & Pete) which is due to
resignations and retirements during 2021 – with no one else stepping up to improve our resource
situation.
4) Your financial secretary and treasurer have planned for, and have finished implementing, the
transition from our 2021 fiscal year to our 2022 fiscal year (both of which are calendar years)
5) Our team will be meeting soon to get involved in two activities in the near term:
a) determining whether to invest some of our funds in safe investments (CD’s, MM accounts) given
the fact that the ROI for those types of instruments is improving
b) determining what type of financial review should be done this summer.
MONTHLY ASSESSMENTS
We have one owner that is in arrears for their May 2022 assessments. We have one other owner that needs to finish out a partial payment of a late fee.
SHOW US THE MONEY!
| As of April 30, 2022 | ||
| BOC Checking | $99,280.46 | |
| BOC Operations Savings | 3,757.94 | |
| Fidelity Operations Savings | 6,476.41 | |
| Fidelity Reserve Savings | 84,504.89 | |
| TOTAL | $194,019.70 |
Nan moved to accept the treasurer’s report, Pamm 2nd. Passed.
- Planning & Practices Team
- Pete made a process observation about how things are presented to the board. Being that Susan is both the secretary and on the insurance team, it was unexpected that she presented options for changing the way we pay our individual portion of the insurance premium.
- B&G
- B&G Report to Include Homeowner concerns Rick sent in his May 23, 2022 Questions about grounds conditions email – Nan
- Old business
- Insurance questions to American Family – Insurance Committee will add more questions to Danielle for more clarification.
While walking by American Family Insurance a few months ago, Susan stopped and talked to Danielle about our increase and found the following:
1.The increase has to do with raising the dollar amount per square foot for replacement cost to $250.00/ S.F. from $148.00/S.F.
The process for formulating the premium amount starts with taking the square footage of units plus the garages plus the porches. (whatever is under the roof). These figures are taken from the Accessor’s Office information.
That number is 70,375 square feet for all the buildings. That number is multiplied by the $250.00 replacement cost to equal the amount of insurance we should cover. The insurance company has a multiplier that includes the number of buildings and how many are duplexes and triplexes and our deductible. When the multiplier is applied to the amount of insurance we should cover, we get the $34,000.00 annual premium.
2. The only way we can reduce our premium is to increase the deductible. Our current deductible is $1000.00.
3. American Family Insurance has a guarantee of full replacement value regardless of whether the amount is more than $250.00/S.F. provided we keep the amount we should insure at the 70,375 x $250.00 = $17,593,750 of coverage.
4. She doesn’t expect that the Marshall Fire will affect our premium any day soon, as they were at the bottom of suggested coverage and we’re already at the top of mountain town coverage. (county is more) She does expect that the residential insurance in the valley will skyrocket.
5. She mentioned that most of her HOA’s with various sized units have switched to charging unit owners by the percentage of the premium of insurable square footage of the HOA’s various unit sizes.
This prompted Susan to come up with the proposal below in New Business.
HOA Guests policy draft and discussion – Business Practice will take this further to come to some resolution. Our rules and regs need updating.
Professional Property Management (PM) research status – Pamm and PM Research Team
EPMFHOA Report To Board – Professional Property Management Status
- June 6, 2022 10:00 a.m. EPMFHOA Property walkthrough with Lisa Rosenhagen and Property Management Research team.
- Will ask Lisa for a detailed document explaining what she/her company can do for us.
- Lisa to provide a cost for services.
- Post June 56 meeting Property Management Research team to meet to discuss meeting.
- Property Management Research team will present to the Board their request to proceed with hiring Lisa (or not).
- If EPMFHOA approves hiring Lisa as our Property Manager, we (EPMFHOA) will still have representation, which will include at least EPMFHOA:
- President
- Vice President
- Secretary
- Treasurer
- Operations Director
- New Business
- Insurance charges allocation proposal – Susan
Our current manner of calculating the insurance premium is based on an arbitrary $5.00 monthly difference between the three sized units; small, medium and large. The size of the units is based on interior square footage without the garage or porches included in order to come up with which units are in which category.
Susan put together 2 charts to have easy access to the sizes and HOA responsibile areas of the units. She noticed (when calculating the sizes including garages and porches, like the insurance companies would do, that the difference between the smallest of the small units and largest of the medium units is 500 s.f.. The difference between the smallest of the large and largest of the large was also 500 s.f.. She proposes to only have 2 tiers for insurance; the one levels, and the two levels, and splitting the premium according to the percentage of each of the tiers’ square footage by the number of units in the tier. It seems that so long as the premium was under $10,000.00 the $10 split between small to large was accurate. Now that the premium is up to $34K, with 1/3 of the units almost twice as large as the other 2/3 of the units, a $5.00 difference doesn’t seem appropriate. (to Susan, anyway)
So Susan’s proposal is to have only 2 tiers and split the premium by percentage of square footage per tier and then by the number of units in the tier. This would be more like the way an insurance company would do it and less arbitrary.
This proposal was tabled until a future meeting.
- Schedule next meetings: in June, date to be determined.
- Adjournment: 2:43
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.
EPMFHOA Minutes 3/13/22
Attendees: Rick, Ronnie, Pete, Nan, Pamm, Sherry, Linda H, Arleta, Becky, Lori, Randy, Anne
Finance: – minutes approved, Pete & Nan
– approved MF 2222 revised budget
– Treasurer: Pete
final budget worksheet was sent out with tiny changes so we need to approve
– Approved, Ronnie & Pam
Planning and Practices – no items on agenda
B&G – no new projects in progress. Snow removal continues
Rental Issue re VRBO problem with 1447- Ronnie noted the onus is on all owners for the actions of one owner
-who supervises the proposed 3 day limit? Who enforces it? An inflexible ruling would negatively impact other owners
– Business Practices function may be to rewrite document re rental. Pamm & Pete will take lead in rewriting it(?).
Schedule for next meeting – April? Yes, in order to discuss Property Management and upcoming interview
– April proposed
General discussion – Water retention and lawn replacement discussed at state level.
Old business: none listed
Insurance increase: it is built into next year budget already. How do we cover in the future?The current replacement cost of $250 that is currently in the policy will definitely go up in the future
– maybe increase the deductible in the future, but need input from all the owners involved
– Ronnie asked if we have a ‘cadillac’ policy. We need the components 7 get comparisons
– an idea was suggested to use the Property Management co to group our insurance with others and get a discount
Rental Property document re: short term visitors (Becky and Lori):
The issue in the document is whether to restrict guests when the owner isn’t present.
#1 ok – straight forward enough: no short-term rentals, minimum 6 month rentals.
#2 – Ok commentary: We like a safe, quiet neighborhood.
#3 – problem – determining/managing when visitors are here without the owner present. Are they actually short-term rentals? The HOA assumes they’re guests when the owner is present, but is unsure when the owner isn’t present. It seems the question/concern is how many times do we want “unaccompanied” strangers in the neighborhood and who’s going to manage that and how will that be managed?
No conclusion was made.
End of meeting.
Minutes taken by Nan Belknap and edited (rental property document) by Susan Novy
Posted in Minutes 2022 by Susan with no comments yet.